RLP 97: RLP with DNA – What’s Next?

Nicole (1s):
This is Research Like a Pro episode 97: RLP with DNA – What’s Next. Welcome to Research Like a Pro a Genealogy Podcast about taking your research to the next level, hosted by Nicole Dyer and Diana Elder accredited genealogy professional. Diana and Nicole are the mother-daughter team at FamilyLocket.com and the creators of the Amazon bestselling book, Research Like a Pro a Genealogists Guide. I’m Nicole co-host of the podcast join Diana and me as we discuss how to stay organized, make progress in our research and solve difficult cases.

Nicole (42s):
Let’s go. Hi everyone. And welcome to the show. I’m Nicole Dyer, co-host of Research Like a Pro, and I’m here with accredited genealogist, Diana Elder. Hi Diana.

Diana (56s):
Hi Nicole. It’s fun to be here today. And today we’ve got Robin Wirthlin, our genetic genealogist with us. How are you doing Robin?

Robin Wirthlin (1m 4s):
I’m doing great. I’m having fun, doing some good research and digging into DNA.

Nicole (1m 10s):
Wonderful. And that’s why we are talking about DNA today. We’ve all been working on a lot of this genetic genealogy research lately, and we’re excited to talk about our last topic in our Research Like a Pro with DNA series: what do you do next after you’ve written a report? Let’s just review all of the posts and episodes in this series that we’ve talked about so far. Step one was to take a DNA test and create a testing strategy. Step two is assess, understand, and use your DNA results. Step three was organized and see the big picture and chart your DNA matches.

Nicole (1m 50s):
Step four was a research objective, figuring out what you want to know. Step five was analyze your sources and sorting out the DNA sources, information and evidence. Step six was locality research and looking at DNA and locality research and ethnicity. Step seven was research planning, adding DNA methodology and tools to your plan. Along with the traditional sources, along with step seven, we kind of talked about a lot of different tools and ways to find your answer using DNA, so that had a lot of blog posts that went along with it and two podcasts covering the tools.

Nicole (2m 34s):
Step eight was source citations. Step nine was research logs and step 10 was report writing. So now we are to step 11, what’s next, continue your research and writing productivity and education. At the end of our traditional Research Like a Pro study group, we always talk about productivity and education and how to go forward and improve. So that’s kind of what we’re going to do today. We’re going to talk about how to share your research, how to learn more about using DNA and how to continue to refine your process and productivity.

Diana (3m 8s):
Thanks Nicole, for doing that overview. I think sometimes it’s good just to think about that entire process and for someone who hasn’t done DNA research before, that may sound so overwhelming, but the thing is, you just start with the very first thing and work on that, and then you go to the next and then the next and the next, and by the time you’re finished, you actually have something written down. And that is the beauty of having a process.

Robin Wirthlin (3m 35s):
I think it’s really helpful to have a process instead of just having this tangle of stuff that you look at, and then say, I give up. This Research Like a Pro process will help you make that progress so that you come out with something that’s really useful and you’ve had the sense of accomplishment with it.

Nicole (3m 52s):
That that’s so true. Let’s talk about that. So if you write your report and you’re done with that phase of research, but you haven’t proven your conclusion, what do you do next? Well, you can continue your research on that same overarching research question, but I like to think of it as is like having an overarching or principle research question that you’re trying to answer. And then each project that you do can have a sub objective or a more specific focus for that particular project. With DNA research, we have a lot of different hypothesis and alternate conclusions that it could be that we need to disprove before we can say that our conclusion is proven.

Nicole (4m 35s):
So that means we’re going to have sub objectives within our overarching question. And we might start off with an overarching question of who are the parents of John Robert Dyer, like I’ve been working on. And then a sub objective of that would be is, Robert Dougherty the father of John Robert Dyer? Is James Taylor, the father of John Robert Dyer? Each one of those could be a separate project where I dive into the traditional records about that person, look at their timeline, look at their place and see if that’s a possibility within both of those sub objectives. I would be analyzing the DNA, matches that, go along with that. So if you finish the first phase and you haven’t come to a conclusion, what’s totally normal, often it will take multiple projects to figure out the answer to your overarching question.

Nicole (5m 24s):
So it really helps us to think of our research in phases. So it’s just start another project. And maybe you had some suggestions for future research that you can use to get started on something new. Often our objective will change slightly. We’ll have more information. You might have a new location to make a new locality guide for. You may have found that certain DNA matches are leading to another common ancestor that could be a grandparent or a spouse of the person of interest that you can work on that side and separate all the matches out for that person or that couple. So really it’s just about repeating this Research Like a Pro process to see if you can get closer to proving the relationship that you’re trying to prove.

Nicole (6m 6s):
And it does often take multiple phases of research.

Diana (6m 11s):
I really liked that term phases. And I think that it’s helpful to have these projects be a little bit smaller rather than something so large. So say for instance, you’re trying to prove an Ancestry thruline, and you’ve got so many different descendants of that ancestor that you want to prove. If you just said, you’re going to prove all of them, that would just be a huge project and how much better just to say, okay, I’m going to do this in phases, first I’m going to prove the oldest child and have that be its own report and then go onto the next one.

Robin Wirthlin (6m 45s):
I totally agree with that. I’ve been working on one for Sparks Shifflett, and he’s got these different siblings and they all have descendants. One of them, we can’t tell if, if the descendants have actually tested their DNA, but it’s definitely going to take a phase for each of the children. Well, once you initiate a research report, you want to share it. There are probably other people within your family that would be interested in your research report, and this could be a way to help engage them in family history research. When somebody knows some more of the story and more of a connection with that ancestor, it can pique their interest and help them get involved.

Robin Wirthlin (7m 30s):
And maybe they could even help you with your research or just cheer you on. Another place that you can share your research report is into the FamilySearch family tree. You can put it into the memory section, or you could include it with an Ancestry tree. One important thing to do is to get permission from the DNA matches that you include in your report. If they haven’t already made their results publicly available, such as on GEDMatch. It’s really important to follow the genealogy standards and the genetic genealogy standards. They guide us and then they also protect us. For example, genealogy standards say that genealogists share living test takers data only with written consent to share that data.

Robin Wirthlin (8m 14s):
That’s in standard number 57 and then genetic genealogy standard number eight says genealogists respect all limitations on reviewing and sharing DNA test results and imposed at the request of the tester. For example, genealogists do not share or otherwise reveal to DNA test results beyond the tools offer by the testing company or other personal information like the name, address, or email without the written or oral consent of the tester and standard number nine says genealogists share DNA test results of living individuals in a work of scholarship only if the tester has given permission or has previously made those results publicly available.

Robin Wirthlin (9m 4s):
Really, we are trying to be considerate of other people, consider their feelings, their thoughts, and their privacy. Thinking about it in relation to yourself, you may not want all of your information put out without your permission either. Blaine Bettinger wrote a great article about using DNA evidence in written conclusions. Sometimes we write to DNA matches and then they don’t respond for whatever reason. They haven’t checked into their account. They get many emails a day and they missed it, or maybe even they’re deceased. So if we don’t have the express permission of a DNA tester then we can privatize the DNA matches name and their parents’ names, we can write the grandparent’s name and their dates, and then write private for the parent and right match number one for the actual DNA match.

Robin Wirthlin (9m 57s):
Or you could write the initials of the parent and then match number two for the DNA matches name. Really a great genealogist can figure out who the people are through techniques and methodologies to identify living people. But this is a way to give the test takers some privacy.

Nicole (10m 19s):
Yeah, I think it is important to privatize the match’s name if they haven’t given us permission. You know, how would you feel if there was an article in a journal published and they had your name and your parents’ names and they hadn’t even asked you, it would feel a little bit like, oh, and maybe I would be fine with it, but I still would prefer to be asked, I think. So it’s a good thing to do if we’re going to publish.

Diana (10m 41s):
Absolutely. So let’s talk about another next step that you could do after you have proved your case, because that’s why we’re doing this, right? We’re trying to prove these connections to ancestors. What do we do to actually put something out there that’s proven? Well, this is where we take all of our research, our reports, everything that we’ve done, and we make that into a proof argument or a case study, which details the conclusion. It resolves all the conflicting information and basically proves our connections or whatever our objective was. So this is a wonderful step. And like I said, this may take several phases of that research to get to a point where you can actually find proof.

Diana (11m 27s):
What you would want to do as you’re doing this is talk about your traditional research and then you follow up with your DNA evidence. So you have to have both in these case studies. You want the reader to understand everything in the background about the family history and the genealogy and all the clues that you got from the records. But then you also want to add in that DNA evidence to show how it all comes together and you prove the case in writing approve argument. One of the best resources is in Tom Jones’s book, Mastering Genealogical Proof. And in chapter seven, he talks all about the written conclusion. And I know when I was working on accreditation, I studied that book from cover to cover and did all the exercises because there are questions and you can write your own answers in the back and then check them.

Diana (12m 18s):
I really, really studied about how to write genealogical proof, summaries, and arguments. It’s not something that we do naturally, and there are so many good tips. So I really recommend that book. Now, after you have written up your proof argument or your case study, you do need to put it somewhere. You know, we need to publish it somewhere and you could, of course, like we talked about earlier, put it on FamilySearch or Ancestry, but you know, you could also submit that to a genealogical journal for publication. That is something that will get it out there in the big genealogy world. And how great would that be? So there are some journals that are pretty broad in scope.

Diana (13m 2s):
The National Genealogical Society Quarterly is often called the Q or the NGSQ. And that covers research in every United State and often European research, so that’s very, very broad, but if you’ve got something that’s maybe more localized, perhaps you would want to submit to the New England Historical and Genealogical Registers, if you have a specific New England research project. There’s also the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, then there’s several other journals. In fact, maybe the place you’d want to submit to is something really local. There’s the Georgia Genealogical Society and they put out a quarterly.

Diana (13m 44s):
So if you’ve done research in Georgia, maybe that’d be the perfect place. The neat thing about submitting to a journal is they have editors that are going to look at your work and fix it up and make it better. And they’ll work with you to get an article in the very best shape for publication. So, you know, consider that, that may be, if you’ve gone to all the work, what could be the harm? All they could say is no, try again. And then you can try again, right?

Robin Wirthlin (14m 9s):
Those are really great ideas, Diana. Sharing your work can really help other people and maybe they are also descendants of the same ancestors and that will be a blessing to them.

Nicole (14m 20s):
So let’s say you finished proving that objective and you’re ready to start again. How do you choose a new objective? Maybe you’ve solved that brick wall that’s been longstanding. And when you’re looking at your family tree, like, well, what am I going to do next? If you want to continue using DNA, you might want to choose an objective where you have a lot of DNA evidence just waiting for you to use. And one way to figure out if you have that is by creating a cluster chart or some kind of chart that shows your genetic networks. So you can see at a glance, some of the genetic networks that are there ready for you to analyze and figure out who the common ancestor is. So maybe you’ll use Genetic Affairs or Connected DNA or some other method of clustering in your matches then you can just kind of work through identifying the common ancestor of each cluster.

Nicole (15m 11s):
And often these clusters will hold the answer to a dead end in your tree, or they could be a cluster of people who you have no idea how you’re related to and the common ancestor is no one you’ve ever heard of. And that could be a mystery that you want to figure out, how does this group of matches relate to anyone in my pedigree? That could be something fun to do. You can just start by reviewing each generation of your tree to verify that each link going backward is biological. So maybe you’ve traced that line through traditional records, but you’re not sure if that is a genetic line as well. Maybe you’ll find that there’s a side of their family, that you need more test takers.

Nicole (15m 53s):
So you might want to create a targeted testing strategy to get some of your cousins to test and see if they can provide evidence about a certain branch that has fewer testers. And maybe you have a gap in one of your branches of the family tree, where there aren’t very many matches or no matches, and maybe there’s a suspected misattributed parentage there that you can investigate. So there’s a lot of ways to find a new objective. And I think it’s smart to start with the DNA evidence and see where that’s pointing. I think a lot of the time when we look at our tree and we start there, and to figure out what do we want to know from our tree but another way to do it is to really look at your DNA and your matches and your clusters and see where that leads you.

Diana (16m 36s):
It’s kind of like building a foundation, right? So I’m thinking of my DNA matches and I’ve got several on my mother’s side that are pretty close cousins, but I tend to ignore them because I want to work on my dad’s side where all the brick walls are, but I think it would be beneficial if I did a little project and try to really work on identifying those close cousins, just to build a solid foundation for that maternal line in the DNA. So I like the idea of looking and seeing where you’ve got that DNA evidence and then using that for your project, that is a different way of looking at it and I like that.

Robin Wirthlin (17m 14s):
That’s a fantastic idea. As you’ve used those cousins to help solidify the connection to the different generations you are also verifying your family tree and on DNAPainter.com, you can build your genetic family tree and what a fun thing to be able to share with your family. Well, as we work with our DNA and genealogy, and we’re so excited with it, it’s easy to get sidetracked or go down a rabbit hole. So it’s important to continue refining your use of correspondence logs, research logs, and company note taking tools to help you stay organized and productive.

Robin Wirthlin (17m 54s):
There are also other tools out there for research logs and note-taking like Airtable or Notion. Those are somewhat new to all of us, but Nicole has really dug in with Airtable. She wrote about that in the blog post called DNA Research Logs: How to Keep Track of Genetic Genealogy Searches. And we worked with that in our Research Like a Pro with DNA study group, and one of the members there tried it, but he found that he wasn’t able to italicize names of publications in the citations. And that was really frustrating. So he found another similar spreadsheet and database capabilities, and that is called Notion.

Robin Wirthlin (18m 38s):
We haven’t tried that out yet, but it looks like a great way to have your log and your notes all in one place. We are always trying to learn more about productivity and implement it. And there are some articles and podcast episodes that have been created on the topic by Diana and Nicole, and they are Family History and Getting Things Done, it’s a series of posts about David Allen’s book; Research Like a Pro 12 Productivity Podcast episode, Boost Your Genealogy Productivity with Google Keep, and Productivity Counts: Making the Best of Your Family History Time.

Nicole (19m 15s):
Thanks for sharing that Robin. I just wanted to say, while you were talking about going down a rabbit hole, when we go down those rabbit holes with our DNA research, this is what I do. So after I’ve done that maybe for the last half an hour, I’ve just been kind of clicking around and searching and not keeping track. So I’ll try to kind of make up for the wander by writing something down about it. So last night I was doing this, I was kind of just playing around and I actually found some really interesting things from just poking around. And so I decided to just go ahead and open up a document and throw all the links of everything I found in a little summary, so that when I’m on my game again, and I’m ready to like actually analyze this information, it’ll be all right there for me.

Nicole (19m 60s):
And I can put it into a real research log. So that’s something we can do, you know, we’re not all perfect. And it’s good to have a way to capture what we’ve done on those little rabbit holes.

Diana (20m 11s):
I love that story. I think that’s so fun. And often it does kind of happen when you’re just sitting down in the evenings that you start doing that, and then you discover something that you don’t want to forget. Well, one of the things for productivity that’s been great for me was discovering One Tab. And you taught me about that, Nicole. So One Tab is an app that you can download for Google Chrome. And you know, when, if you’ve gone down a rabbit hole and you have six or seven tabs open and you don’t want to lose all of those, you can also just use One Tab and it synthesizes them all, and you can name as whatever it was. You can say, you know, this was my Smith research.

Diana (20m 52s):
And then when you want to return to that, you can click restore all and all those tabs will magically come back. So that’s been a game changer for me having One Tab because I have so many times where I have multiple things open and then my time’s up for working on that specific item. And I don’t want to lose all my tabs. So go check it out. If you’ve never heard of One Tab, it’s a really, really neat. I love it. Okay. So now we’ve kind of talked a little bit about productivity. Let’s talk about education. This can be a full-time job. I think keeping up with all the new DNA and if you feel like you’re already way behind it’s okay, you can get started now to put together an education plan, start with ground level DNA information, and just start learning.

Diana (21m 40s):
We’re going to talk about some different ways you can learn. And I really encourage you as you’re listening to be thinking of maybe just two or three things that speak to you, something that you want to do. And I would recommend not putting off DNA. Get started with doing something simple and start learning now because there’s so many great tools out there now. One of the fun things that you can do is join a DNA Facebook group. And I’m not going to read through all the different ones there are, because we have this in a blog post on FamilyLocket about DNA education, but a Facebook group, may be would kind of keep things in the forefront of your mind.

Diana (22m 24s):
So one of the ones I recommend that you join is the Genetic Genealogy Tips and Techniques group. This is by Blaine Bettinger, and there are thousands upon thousands of people in there. And they really do discuss every kind of DNA topic that you can think of from beginner to advanced. So that would be a good one to get started with. There are groups on the specific companies, you know, like Ancestry DNA or DNA Painter, so many different ones that you could join. So if you’re interested in learning more about something specific, let’s just say you have your DNA only on 23andMe, so maybe you want to join a Facebook group for that, or you’re only on FamilyTreeDNA you could join that user group.

Diana (23m 7s):
So that might be something to think about if you are a Facebook user, that that’s a great way to get a little bit of education.

Robin Wirthlin (23m 16s):
I wasn’t a Facebook user for many years, but the reason why I did get a Facebook account is so that I could keep up with all of the latest greatest in genetic genealogy. Let’s say you just use it for that, it’s worth it. If you’re worried about privacy, you could create some creative name and you don’t have to put all your personal information in there, but you could just use it to keep track of these different, latest, greatest things that have been announced. It seems to be the forum where all the latest things are introduced.

Nicole (23m 48s):
Yes, I’ve really enjoyed some of these Facebook groups and found them really helpful, especially when I’m trying to learn a new product or tool like GeneticAffairs and DNA GEDCom, and those kinds of things. Let’s talk more about learning and DNA education. There’s a lot of online classes available that you might want to consider. NGS has come up with an intermediate course that focuses on concepts and techniques for genetic genealogies. William Bender has his membership site called DNA Central and that has several online courses that you can take and webinars and articles and his newsletter. And all of those are really wonderful. Have you guys all heard of the DNA adoption classes?

Nicole (24m 31s):
I think these are really great for people who are doing unknown parentage cases, but they can also be really helpful for anyone learning how to use DNA and family history. They have a lot of free classes, their First Look classes, but they also have three paid courses. In tier two DNA, Applied Autosomal DNA and Y-DNA Basics. So if you are interested in that, I think those are kind of on a recurring basis where you can sign up and follow along with those classes that are about two to four weeks and they have video lectures and articles and a group forum. If you’ve ever purchased the book, Genetic Genealogy and Practice, and you want to kind of work through that there are some study groups on Facebook that are going through that book and working on each chapter and the assignments.

Nicole (25m 18s):
So you can just search for that on Facebook, Genetic Genealogy and Practice Study Groups, and see if you can join on. I did one of those and it was great to work through the book and talk about it.

Diana (25m 30s):
Well, that’s how I learned how to do DNA research was using that book, Genetic Genealogy and Practice. Again, it’s so helpful to have something that just takes you through step by step. And when you have to do the exercises, it makes you really synthesize what you’ve learned. I also wanted to mention that we will be doing our second Research Like a Pro DNA study group this fall. So registration for that will open up in August and prerequisites for that are that you already know the Research Like a Pro process, that you’ve worked with that with your traditional genealogy, and that you also have some background in DNA. So we’re excited to start with that. And if you want more information on it, just go to FamilyLocket and you can read all about what that will be.

Robin Wirthlin (26m 13s):
I’m looking forward to the next Research Like a Pro with DNA study group. That was a really great experience that we had with the first one. And I’m looking forward to the second one. I urge everybody to sign up for it. Some other ways that you can learn about DNA is to take an Institute course about DNA. Institutes are a genealogy week, but you could think of it as like a summer camp and they go in-depth in learning and there are instructors there that are experts. You can ask questions and get to know other people in the class. It’s really a nice way to take a deep dive into a subject that you’re interested in.

Robin Wirthlin (26m 54s):
There are several genealogy institutes that offer DNA courses. A lot of times those courses sell out quickly due to a small classroom size. So you want to make sure that you sign up for the class on the day that they opened the registration. If possible, the ones that are coming up are the Salt Lake Institute of Genealogy. Also known as SLIG it’s in January. And the registration for that opens July 11th at 9:00 AM, mountain daylight time. And some courses taught there are Introduction to Genetic Genealogy by Paul Woodbury and Angie Bush is teaching some classes in there too.

Robin Wirthlin (27m 35s):
And Meeting Standards, using DNA Evidence with Karen Stanbury. And then there’s also the SLIG Academy for Professionals. There’s a forensic genealogy class in that next January and Angie Bush is teaching about DNA in that course, then there’s the SLIG virtual classes, and those are run in the fall. And right now they’re running an all DNA advanced evidence analysis practicum with Angela Magee and some other classes like intermediate foundations and Swedish and Finish genealogy and Chinese ancestry. So another place is called IGHR or Institute of Genealogy and Historical Research.

Robin Wirthlin (28m 21s):
And because of the Corona virus pandemic, some of these institutes are being held virtually. So this might be a really great chance for you to go attend one of these classes, but be able to stay at home. The Institute of Genealogy and Historical Research is having a class called genetics for genealogists, beginning DNA and intermediate DNA planning for and conducting research using DNA and documentary sources. And then the Genealogical Research Institute of Pittsburgh sometimes called GRIP has also having virtual classes. They’ve got practical genetic genealogy with Blaine Bettinger, and there are a few seats left for July when I checked last night and advanced DNA evidence with Blaine Bettinger and Angie Bush.

Robin Wirthlin (29m 15s):
So you can add your name to the wait list if there are courses that are full and it’s possible that you’ll get in if somebody cancels. So I just started, my very first Institute class was chromosome mapping and it was two years ago. And I found that I loved that kind of a setting instead of a conference where there was so much promotion and chaos. I really liked having a smaller group and learning about a subject in depth, and I am hooked. I love those Institute classes, so I really recommend them to anybody.

Nicole (29m 47s):
I agree. I did my first Institute classes last year and I did three. They were all at SLIG and I did the virtual ones first because that was just easier for me to stay home for several weeks. I did intermediate foundations and then I did the advanced evidence analysis practicum with all DNA cases. And that was wonderful. It was amazing to learn with a hands-on experience like that, and then to be discussing how we solved the cases afterward. The last one that I did was the slide course with Karen Stanbury on meeting standards, using DNA evidence, which is going to be offered again. And I recommend that one, if you are at all interested in certification and learning how to apply the standards to proving cases using DNA evidence, because it was really useful to discuss the concepts in the second edition of genealogy standards and how they relate to DNA evidence and applying it to real life cases and how we can actually follow the standards and be able to prove our cases.

Nicole (30m 52s):
So I thought it was super helpful and I go back to my notes and refer to them all the time and the syllabus, the syllabus is like an amazing book. So it’s definitely worth it just for that one note is if you’re not familiar with institutes at all, just know that they do seem pretty expensive just to register. It’s like 500 or $600, but you really get an in-depth learning. And now with these virtual institutes, you can really save some money on travel costs. You can just sign up and learn from home. So I would recommend that.

Diana (31m 27s):
Well, my very first Institute was a DNA class too. It was in 2018 and it was a practical approach establishing genealogical proof with DNA by Karen Stanbury. And I agree that the syllabus is really helpful. I have mine all marked up. The interesting thing with an Institute is sometimes it’s the first time you’ve heard a concept and it kind of goes over your head. And as I’m looking through my syllabus, now that I’ve done so much work on DNA, it all makes sense. But I remember the first time I heard some of these concepts and some of these things, I just thought, oh, a network graph, what is that? And how would you use it? And now that’s what I love to use to solve difficult cases.

Diana (32m 8s):
So it was kind of fun to look back and see how far we’ve come with our DNA knowledge. And so don’t be afraid of it. You’ll just get out of it, what you can get out of it, but it can be a great jumping off point to learning. So let’s talk about DNA books and articles. It’s neat that we are starting to get a nice library collection of DNA books out there. I think everyone probably knows about Blaine Bettinger’s book, the Family Tree Guide to DNA Testing and Genetic Genealogy. It’s in its second edition. It’s difficult to keep these up to date because the world of genetic genealogy keeps changing on us, but the principles will always be the same.

Diana (32m 50s):
Another one that we’ve actually mentioned a couple of times in this podcast is Genetic Genealogy and Practice, which is by Blaine Bettinger and Debbie Parker Wayne. And that’s the one where you have the exercises to complete after reading each chapter. So that’s a great way to really dive in. And then Debbie Parker Wayne also did a compendium of several different case studies by various authors and it’s called Advanced Genetic Genealogy Techniques and Case Studies. I tackled that when it first came out and I would just read a little bit every day and went through the entire book and learned so much from all the different authors. There were mitochondrial cases, Y-DNA as well as autosomal, a variety of topics.

Diana (33m 33s):
Now, one that I haven’t read is the Adoptees Guide to DNA Testing by Tamar Weinberg that I have heard good things about that. So if you’re an adoptee or working on adoptee case, I’m sure that one would be great to read. And then the one I’m almost done reading is called Tracing Your Ancestors Using DNA: a Guide for Family Historians. And this one is by a group of authors who are out of the UK. When I first picked it up, I thought it looked a little intimidating, but as I’ve been reading it, I have noticed that it is very readable and very interesting. I’ve learned a lot from it. So I would recommend putting in your education plan, at least one book, and then just read a little bit each day or each week, take small bites because it can be kind of hard to understand everything that you’re reading and it does take some time to absorb it all.

Robin Wirthlin (34m 26s):
I think it’s fantastic that there are books out there that you can have and refer to. I right, the second half of all of these books sitting right beside me to refer to because there are principles in them that are timeless and they’re great reference guides. So I really encourage them. I especially love that Family Tree Guide to DNA Testing and Genetic Genealogy by Blaine Bettinger. And I’m really liking the Tracing Your Ancestors Using DNA as well. So I really encourage you to get them, keep them as part of your library and they will be great reference books for you.

Nicole (35m 3s):
So I like to get the ebook versions, but I’ve found that I actually need to have the paper copy too. So it’s like the Advanced Genetic Genealogy book, I bought it twice. I bought it first for Kindle. I really liked being able to use the Kindle web app to read books on my computer and then be able to use the search function, to look for exactly what I want to know within the book. But then I also really like to have the paper copies. I remember getting ready for this SLIG course with Karen Stanbury, this January reading Advanced Genetic Genealogy on my phone, on the airplane, trying to make, I was prepared for the course because I had so many prerequisites. So it’s nice to have that mobile aspect of having it on your phone sometimes too.

Nicole (35m 45s):
In addition to all these wonderful books and courses, there are lots of blogs out there that deal with genetic genealogy and there are even podcasts and YouTube channels. So let’s just talk briefly about some of them and you can check out our full list on our website. Katie Cooper’s blog is a good one, she’s been doing it since 2012. The DNA Geek by Leah Larkin, she’s got a PhD in biology, so she has a lot of experience and she always updates the graph, showing the various database sizes on her website so that’s a resource that I use a lot. She helps a lot of people who are adoptees as well.

Nicole (36m 24s):
Roberta Estes has a wonderful blog called DNA Explained, and that’s a really good resource, especially for learning how to use mitochondrial DNA and Native American DNA and pretty much everything, she just really covers a lot of the tools, too. Diahan Southard’s website is amazing, Your DNA Guide, but I don’t think we mentioned this, but she has a book out too. It’s pretty new and it’s just called Your DNA Guide the Book. So that’s a really fun one because it’s kind of like a choose your own adventure book. And do you start with an objective and then she tells you what to do. And it’s very, bite-size little pages that tell you to do this then do that. I made a friend at SLIG who was my seat partner, and her name is Ann Raymont and she has a blog called the DNA sleuth and she’s a certified genealogist.

Nicole (37m 8s):
So I really like her blog too, because of her perspective. And she does talk about a lot of more advanced topics for DNA and incorporating that with traditional research. I really liked that. And then there’s a podcast called the Cutoff Genes Podcast with Julie Dixon Jackson. She also has a Facebook group and it’s really focused on finding biological parents for people who are adopted and foundlings and whatnot. There’s also a YouTube channel that we like called Family History Fanatics with Andrew and Devin Lee and they have a lot of free videos describing all kinds of topics and kind of walking you through some things like with GEDmatch and different tools and different concepts that may be hard to understand. So definitely check that out as well.

Diana (37m 48s):
Those are some great resources. We were talking a little bit when we talked about Facebook, that that sort of some of the latest and the greatest tips are, and I would kind of second that with the blog posts. It seems like whenever a company comes out with a new tool or a new third party company starts something, the bloggers are the ones that are right on it and writing about how to use it and then talking about their discoveries. So I think it would be a great idea to just try some of those blog posts and then subscribe so that you get their regular emails.

Robin Wirthlin (38m 20s):
Those are great ideas. I love it. When the things come into your inbox so that you can see them right away. Another way to learn about using DNA evidence in genealogy proof arguments is to read about how other people have solved their research questions. And we talked a little bit before about submitting articles to the NGSQ or the Register. One great thing is to read the articles in there. There are several about DNA that are in the National Genealogical Society Quarterly. They teach you about the methodology as you read through the case study. So it can give you ideas about trying a certain technique or looking at things in a different way, in regards to your own research.

Robin Wirthlin (39m 7s):
When you read through the articles and it can also give you ideas on how to lay out charts and how to explain things, when you are writing your own research report up. Elizabeth Shown Mills has one called testing the FAN principle against DNA. Milfy Watts Price Cooksey, Cooksey of Georgia and Mississippi, that was done in 2014. And Nicole, do you have a favorite? You’ve mentioned several of these articles.

Nicole (39m 37s):
So I’ve tried a few of them. I like Tom Jones, article Too Few Sources to Solve a Family Mystery, some Greenfields in Central and Western New York. And he uses his DNA to solve that and I’ve heard him give lectures about that case study as well. And it’s a really good one because it’s far in the past. So he has to work with the fourth to fifth cousin range. And it’s really hard to distinguish because the shared centimorgans don’t really tell you like, oh, this is definitely a fifth cousin. It could be a third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth cousin. So it’s good to see somebody solving a case far back in time like that. Another one that I like is Karen Stanbury’s case called Rafael Arriaga a Mexican Father in Michigan Autosomal DNA helps identify paternity.

Nicole (40m 21s):
She did a really good job with this. She shows how you can eliminate different hypotheses for who the father could be by doing targeted testing. And so it’s a really good case to see when you would narrow down to a hypothesis and then eliminate all the other possible competing conclusions. So that you’re only left with one conclusion that it could be another one that I’ve read that I like is Patricia Lee Hobbs DNA identifies a father for Rachel, wife of James Lee, of Huntington county Pennsylvania. If you want to read another one that has a more recent case, Jill Morelli’s article, DNA Helps identify Molly Marley’s Father, I would recommend that.

Nicole (41m 4s):
Just go look at the list. And then if you want to read one, and you’re not a member of NGS, so you maybe don’t have access to the quarterly then one that is available on the BCG website and Elizabeth Shown Mills’ website is her article about Testing the FAN Principle and Milfie Watts Cooksey. So check out that one, at least if you don’t have a membership to the NGSQ.

Diana (41m 24s):
Those are all really great articles. And I know when I did my Institute with Karen Stanbury, we had to divide into small groups and then we each took one of those and then we discussed it. And that was really fun. I would highly recommend to start a little study group where you study these articles with friends, Nicole and I belong to one, and it was kind of good to talk about them with other people, because there might be some things you’re confused about and someone else can chime in and it gives you motivation to study them. Maybe even if you have just one other person that you could join up with and study some of these articles together.

Nicole (42m 4s):
Yes. I love our NGSQ study group. We just do it once a month, so it’s not too demanding, but it’s a really good reminder of what we want our finished product to look like eventually and making a brief argument. Well, thanks, Robin and Diana, that was a great episode filled with suggestions for going forward. After you finished your DNA research report, maybe you’re going to keep going with here, same objective, or start another objective or focus on continuing your DNA education. So whatever you choose to do good luck to you. And if you would like to review any of the steps in the Research Like a Pro with DNA process, be sure to go to our blog series, Research Like a Pro with DNA, you can review all the articles there.

Nicole (42m 46s):
And each blog post has a link to all the different steps that you can kind of jump around or go to the next one, read it all in order. And as you know, we are working on our book Research Like a Pro with DNA. So it will follow these steps and we’ll go in depth. So get excited for that. We hope that we’ll be able to come out a little bit later this year.

Diana (43m 6s):
Alright, well, thanks everyone for listening. This has been fun to discuss DNA, and we really hope that something we said today will give you an idea of how to get started with your DNA education or to really move to the next level. If you already are working with data

Nicole (43m 21s):
And thanks for coming on Robin, we just love having you on the podcast every time.

Robin Wirthlin (43m 26s):
I love being here. It’s really great. Thanks everyone for listening.

Nicole (43m 30s):
All right, everyone. Have a great week and we’ll talk to you again next week. Bye bye.

Diana (43m 34s):
Bye everyone.

Robin Wirthlin (43m 38s):
Goodbye.

Nicole (44m 12s):
Thank you for listening. We hope that something you heard today will help you make progress in your research. If you want to learn more, purchase our book Research Like a Pro a Genealogist Guide on Amazon.com and other booksellers. You can also register for our Research Like a Pro online course or join our next Study Group. Learn more at FamilyLocket.com. To share your progress and ask questions join our private Facebook group by sending us your book receipt or joining our eCourse or Study Group. If you like what you heard and would like to support this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review. We hope you’ll start now to Research Like a Pro.